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TopSky plugin 2.2.1 beta 10


Juha Holopainen

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Oliver Gruetzmann (961224)

Question about PDC:

I use a DCL profile (not DCL_US) - to my understanding, the clearance should be delivered as an ACARS message, not CPDLC.

Not sure if this is related, but I read somewhere that the FSLabs is not able to logon to CPDLC since the last update - and it doesn't send the "Accept" message back to the controller since then (same with vSMR).

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Juha Holopainen

If the question was how a DCL is delivered, then yes, you're correct that it is an ACARS application. However, the Hoppie network only allows sending "telex" and "cpdlc" types of messages and as "telex" is only a text message without a possibility to request any specific response, "cpdlc" needs to be used for DCL.

On the plugin side, DCL doesn't require a logon. Assuming the FSLabs change wasn't intentional, they'll probably fix it in some future update.

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Oliver Gruetzmann (961224)
1 hour ago, Juha Holopainen said:

If the question was how a DCL is delivered, then yes, you're correct that it is an ACARS application. However, the Hoppie network only allows sending "telex" and "cpdlc" types of messages and as "telex" is only a text message without a possibility to request any specific response, "cpdlc" needs to be used for DCL.

On the plugin side, DCL doesn't require a logon. Assuming the FSLabs change wasn't intentional, they'll probably fix it in some future update.

Guess I really need to buy those norms, curious how this is implemented in RL. From reading this doc, it looks like it might indeed be pure telex messages:

https://www.caas.gov.sg/docs/default-source/pdf/esup-2018-013_singapore-changi-airport---implementation-of-departure-clearance-(dcl)-via-datalink-on-selected-ats-routes.pdf

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Oliver Gruetzmann (961224)
18 hours ago, Juha Holopainen said:

However, the Hoppie network only allows sending "telex" and "cpdlc" types of messages and as "telex" is only a text message without a possibility to request any specific response, "cpdlc" needs to be used for DCL.

After reading through the ARINC 623 standard: That's what happens.

Aircraft and ATC exchange well defined Telex messages with DCL in Europe. ATC sends the clearance using a CLD message, the confirmation is a CLA message with the same content as the CLD message.

No CPDLC. Not sure where this came  (vSMR, I think?), but right now it's a wild mix of the systems.

Edited by Oliver Gruetzmann
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Juha Holopainen

@Oliver Gruetzmann, I'm still not sure whether what you're saying is meant to be a bug report, feature request, discussion on the real-life datalink applications or something else.

If you mean that the plugin does not handle the clearance process realistically - I am aware of it but it's not a bug, it's like that as per design. Here's the problem:

On 2/22/2020 at 8:49 AM, Oliver Gruetzmann said:

Aircraft and ATC exchange well defined Telex messages

This does not happen on the Hoppie network. If it did, my work would be much easier, and the same goes for the CPDLC side of things. Anyone (like me) can develop a client on that network without having to pay any attention to real message formats, and I have to take that into account. I do not know if for example FSLabs would enable the pilot to send a CDA if I sent a correctly formatted CLD as telex, but I have to stick to what works with the "baseline" client (and that is sending the CLD as cpdlc so the pilot can send a response). By "baseline" I mean the Hoppie airborne client which as the original client sets the standard on the network that other clients should follow, otherwise it's impossible to make things work.

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