Complete newb

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

On Sunday, there will be folks manning ESSA, but I see ESOS_CTR being manned too. Does that mean that I can use that for clearance, takeoff and arrival for other airports in Sweden? 

[Gustav Kauman (1262761)]

1 hour ago, Peter Wilhelmsson said:

On Sunday, there will be folks manning ESSA, but I see ESOS_CTR being manned too. Does that mean that I can use that for clearance, takeoff and arrival for other airports in Sweden? 

Hello Peter.

You are correct. If you are ever in doubt when online, ask the controller and they will be more than happy to assist you.

Happy flying!

/Gustav - Pilot Coordinator

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

When initially contacting the controller for clearance, I guess I need to specify where the heck I am, right? =) 

Sweden Control, this is Braathens 3663 at ESMQ stand 1, with November, request clearance for IFR to ESSB as filed. 

 

[Mattias Green (1281702)]

2 minutes ago, Peter Wilhelmsson said:

When initially contacting the controller for clearance, I guess I need to specify where the heck I am, right? =) 

Sweden Control, this is Braathens 3663 at ESMQ stand 1, with November, request clearance for IFR to ESSB as filed. 

 

Correct. Remember that in many cases ATIS is not available (for example on ESMQ) so you will recieve the "ATIS information" from the controller on the frequency.

Also, to make everyone's experience more pleasant, have the charts available and use them. Charts are available for free in Sweden on this website: https://www.aro.lfv.se/Editorial/View/IAIP?folderId=19

I'm the controller who will be on ESOS on Sunday so if you have any concerns feel free to ask here or via private message on Sunday  

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

Thanks! 

[Johan Grauers (1113891)]

13 hours ago, Peter Wilhelmsson said:

When initially contacting the controller for clearance, I guess I need to specify where the heck I am, right? =) 

Sweden Control, this is Braathens 3663 at ESMQ stand 1, with November, request clearance for IFR to ESSB as filed. 

 

I'm going to be very picky (don't worry, I do this to everyone) because well, I'm me.

Get rid of "for IFR" and "as filed".

There is no need in Europe to specify the flight rules, that's a US thing. As for "as filed", you've filed it, so you always request "as filed". It's a completely redundant phrase, just as "with you" or "on your frequency".

There we go, pedantic bits done, now have fun and see you out there at some point maybe

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

There. Did it. Flight done. 

My verdict
Me: Fiasco
ATC: Patience like a frigging Zen Master

The only thing I think worked out as it should for me was the landing =P Everything else was a smorgasbord of misreading, mishearing, misreading back, misclicking... I'm still surprised there wasn't some super-ATC online that sent me a /kickban. 

[Cameron Park]

Well done Peter! You will find soon that you will become addicted to the Vatsim experience, and all of those missed readbacks or incorrect frequencies, will become a thing of the past as you grow more and more used to the environment!

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

Thanks, man, I appreciate it =) 

[Otto Suhonen]

Best thing you can start with is doing a p1 pilot training. I teaches you the basics, what you need, when flying on vatsim. 

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

On 4/24/2016 at 10:14 PM, Otto Suhonen said:

Best thing you can start with is doing a p1 pilot training. I teaches you the basics, what you need, when flying on vatsim. 

Yep, thought I had studied it like a madman, but when I sat there, three ferrets in my stomach, supplying enough water for terraforming Mars from my sweating... I think I even lost childhood memories, not just everything I had read up on about Vatsim

[Otto Suhonen]

2 hours ago, Peter Wilhelmsson said:

Yep, thought I had studied it like a madman, but when I sat there, three ferrets in my stomach, supplying enough water for terraforming Mars from my sweating... I think I even lost childhood memories, not just everything I had read up on about Vatsim

I know, it's lot of information. What training organization is training you? If you don't like reading, thee is also course with video tutorials available(link below). I have done it myself and I can really suggest it. If you have more questions to ask, I would be more than happy to answer them.

https://academy.vatsim.net

Otto

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

I am... actually not being trained by any organization at all. Have I committed some sort of faux pas in not being enrolled in a training program and still logged on? 

Anyway, what threw me off at the start, was that I apparently had failed to grasp what information I'm given when I request clearance. I was at the ready to receive "CRAFT" when I had contacted ESOS_1_CTR (what's the difference between ESOS_1_CTR and ESOS_7_CTR, btw? Different areas of coverage?) but I learned that I wasn't gonna be given a transponder code until after taxiing, and standing at the holding point. I cannot recall this from any of the PilotEdge-videos I've watched, is this a US/EU thing again, like specifying the flight rules? 

Also, if I have clearance for MOVIS 2C departure, initial altitude 6000 feet. I'm cleared all the way through the SID, correct? In this case, I should fly straight out until KAL DME 3, then turn right to a heading of 030 until I intercept KAL-R 359 and proceed from there to MOVIS. As long as I don't climb above 6000 feet, I can go through the SID and then move along my flight plan (in my case, most often along L87 to VIBAR)

[Martin Loxbo (811805)]

Don't worry Peter, there is absolutely no need to be part of any organisation as a pilot on VATSIM. Some pilots prefer to be trained by an ATO, others only fly for a certain VA and others go their own way. It's entirely up to you!

CRAFT - I think it means Clearance, Routing, Altitude, Frequency, Transponder? I would say this is usually not applicable in Europe. Or rather, you can say that some of the components are not given by ATC on the radio but are included in SIDs instead or specified elsewhere. For example, at most larger airports the SID chart will specify the initial climb altitude (as well as other altitude constraints such as "at or above" at certain points), and the departure frequency may also be specified as part of the SID. For the routing, you can assume that you are cleared via flight planned route after the initial part, unless otherwise specified. So if you are given a clearance "MOVIS 2C, climb FL90", this means the same as "MOVIS 2C, flight planned route, climb FL90".

In other words you are correct in assuming that a SID clearance clears you to follow the entire SID routing, and then joining your flight planned route after the final point in the SID.

I would be a bit careful of using US based information when flying in Europe. While the basics are similar there are a lot of differences between procedures and phraseology.

ESOS 1 and ESOS 7 are indeed two different sectors. You can find the sector coverage either in our ATC Local Operating Procedures on the website, or in the AIP. On VATSIM in Sweden we have decided that ESOS 1 on frequency 118.4 is the main Swedish ACC frequency, which covers all of Sweden from the ground up (both ESOS and ESMM AoR) when no other controllers are online. If for example ESOS 7 logs on, this controller will cover only sector 7, and ESOS 1 will continue to cover the rest of Sweden (or as otherwise agreed between the controllers). As a pilot you don't really need to be concerned with this - if you happen to call the wrong controller they will be happy to point you to the correct frequency.

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

This is a lot like a big puzzle, and you provided some key pieces right there, Martin. THANK YOU! 

Reading the ATC LOP was good stuff as well. In doing so, I'm almost inclined to think that some pilots aren't really listening to what the ATC is saying at all, they know that in my example, unless the winds are high, they'll get the RWY 34 MOVIS 2C departure, they know it'll be initial FL90, they know they'll taxi via A8. They only real information that'll be "news" is the QNH and SQUAWK. Right? 

[Otto Suhonen]

There is good vatsim youtubers in europe also. This is what teached me how to fly in vatsim. Those are the basics and when you have learned them, you are capable to fly in europe in vatsim.

Otto

 

[Martin Loxbo (811805)]

Well not exactly. Unfortunately I think you are right that many pilots are not really listening! They think they "always" get FL90 so they read it "back" even if the clearance was different. At many regional airports in Sweden you might get clearance to your cruising level straight away, so even if there is a "standard" level, your clearance may very well be different. Also at many airports you won't normally be cleared via SID, but instead you will be cleared directly to the first point in your flight plan (or even further). (It is still your responsibility to comply with any noise abatement procedures as well as obstacle clearance requirements. Remember ATC is only there to separate you from other traffic!)

When it comes to taxi routings, ATC will normally specific the exact routing. If this is not done, it's either because there is only one route available, or it doesn't matter to ATC what route you take (no traffic affecting your taxi), or there is a standard route that ATC expects you to follow (e.g. at ESSA where you are expected to follow the arrows on the taxi charts). In your example with Kalmar I would expect TWR to say either A8 or A10 - normally A10 I would assume as there is no advantage of using A8 (A8 might be used for landing aircraft vacating RWY 16). If you are only given "taxi to holding point RWY 34", it is likely that ATC doesn't care which one you use (but ask if you're not sure!). On VATSIM this is likely when the controller might be taxiing aircraft at Kiruna at the same time, while you are the only aircraft in Småland, so there is a need to keep it simple in order to provide service to the whole country.

Now I'm nitpicking a bit, but even the QNH shouldn't be "news" to you. As a pilot it's in your interest to be familiar with weather conditions as well as expected routings etc. You would read the METAR and TAF before departure so you are aware of actual and expected weather conditions. Now if the QNH on the METAR is 1009 and ATC tells you 1005, this should ring a warning bell in your head that something is wrong. Maybe you read it wrong on the METAR or you heard wrong from ATC? Anyway, it's best to double check! You would expect a QNH equal or close to what is on the METAR. The same goes for everything else. Does your clearance make sense? Did ATC give you a SID for the correct runway, to the exit point you were expecting?

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

Thanks for the answers! But a new question popped up: METAR. Is Vatsim using real-life weather data, so I can use https://metarreader.com/ or the XPNOAA weather plugin in X-Plane to get the QNH? 

I know I can set the "source" in the plugin to "Vatsim" so the weather in the sim reflects the weater data from Vatsim, but I'm not sure if the METAR query in the plugin still checks for real-life data. I'll pop the question in the support forum thread on x-plane.org. 

[Martin Loxbo (811805)]

Yes, VATSIM uses real weather. It used to be that the VATSIM servers were a bit behind in the updates, so using VATSIM as the weather source would ensure that you see the same weather as ATC. Nowadays the VATSIM weather is normally up to date, so I think it doesn't really matter which source you use for real world weather.

[Peter Wilhelmsson]

On 4/24/2016 at 3:47 PM, Cameron Park said:

You will find soon that you will become addicted to the Vatsim experience, and all of those missed readbacks or incorrect frequencies, will become a thing of the past as you grow more and more used to the environment!

I believe I've actually reached that point!

And to keep stuff easier at hand, I've destroyed an old whiteboard I found in the apartment building's recycling room; I cut it to size and now it's fixed in a stand on the "box" of my Saitek yoke, so it'll be easier when the ATC sends directions. When I hear my callsign, I grab the pen and write down the directions, and when I've acted upon the directions, I can erase them. And if I prepare the board with my own data of expected runway, SID, initial altitude, QNH and the freqs that I'll encounter, it'll require much less brainpower to digest the information from say, my clearance. 

[Martin Stockzell (1294494)]

When and if you feel like it, you are also more then welcome to join the training queue for either of the countries inside Vatsim Scandinavia. It's a very commited and dedicated group of people that takes great pride in learning new things on their spare time to be available to Vatsim-pilots all across our FIR:s.

All information needed is located on the web page under the Training department-section.