MAESTRO plugin 1.1 beta 5

[Juha Holopainen]

Changes from beta 4:

• Change Rates Window updated to allow specifying a time for the rates change
• Flight Information Window added
• De-sequenced List added
• Callsign menu updated (access to Flight Information Window and options to remove or de-sequence the flight)

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Juha Holopainen

[Jan Naslund (812053)]

Hi,

There are no installation instructions in the controller documentation but it seems that there are 3 files that should be copied from the zip:
ICAO_Aircraft.json
MAESTRO.dll
MAESTROsettings.txt

When i look where i can find MAESTRO in my Euroscope installation i see those files under:
/ESAA/Plugins/
/ESAA-CTR/Plugins/
/ESAA-TMC/Plugins/
/ESAA-TMC-Sbox/Plugins/

So i guess i should just copy and replace the above files in those folders?

Is that the installation procedure?

Thanks / Janne

[Martin Loxbo (811805)]

1 hour ago, Jan Naslund (812053) said:

When i look where i can find MAESTRO in my Euroscope installation i see those files under:
/ESAA/Plugins/
/ESAA-CTR/Plugins/
/ESAA-TMC/Plugins/
/ESAA-TMC-Sbox/Plugins/

Not sure why you have that setup - it's not the folder structure you get when installing the Swedish ES files. So presumably you have set it up like that yourself, which means it's difficult for anyone else to comment on where you should install files.

I'm guessing your setup is done to be able to have different profiles depending on if you're controlling ACC or APP (or Sweatbox). You could copy the plugin files to all the plugin folders, or have Maestro activated for your ACC setup only as it's a tool used by ACC.

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

12 hours ago, Jan Naslund (812053) said:

Hi,

There are no installation instructions in the controller documentation but it seems that there are 3 files that should be copied from the zip:
ICAO_Aircraft.json
MAESTRO.dll
MAESTROsettings.txt

When i look where i can find MAESTRO in my Euroscope installation i see those files under:
/ESAA/Plugins/
/ESAA-CTR/Plugins/
/ESAA-TMC/Plugins/
/ESAA-TMC-Sbox/Plugins/

So i guess i should just copy and replace the above files in those folders?

Is that the installation procedure?

Thanks / Janne

Det finns en konfigurerad version i det svenska paketet. Använd den istället för att försöka meka eget. (precis som sagt vid förra versionen av AMAN också...) 

Detta gäller för övrigt alla andra plugins också, de är i princip alltid färdigt konfigurerade i paketet du kan ladda ner. Om du inte kan tillräckligt för att veta var du ska installera plugins så bör du hålla dig till att använda de plugins som kommer med det färdiga paketet. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Max Kuhla (1157125)

[Jan Naslund (812053)]

Hej,

Okej. Tack för svaren.

Har en setup som gör att jag behåller mina personliga inställningar efter airacuppdateringar. Nog därför det ser konstigt ut men jag antar att plugin-filerna borde ligga i Plugin-foldern så jag antar att det är rätt. Gjorde copy-paste och Maestro pup-up'en om en ny Beta-version försvann i alla fall. Har dock inte testat Maestro ännu så jag vet inte om det funkar.

Mvh /Janne

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

@Juha Holopainen

Any chance to add an option in the settings file to disable the update prompt? 

[Juha Holopainen]

Especially with the betas, everyone is pretty much expected to be using the latest versions as soon as possible. For the release versions I can consider an option to delay the notification for non-critical updates.

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

44 minutes ago, Juha Holopainen said:

Especially with the betas, everyone is pretty much expected to be using the latest versions as soon as possible. For the release versions I can consider an option to delay the notification for non-critical updates.

I only mean for the betas. The Swedish package is customized for FTP (among other things) and it seems people feel urged to update when seeing the update prompt, causing them to revert to the example setup included in the download you provide.

This rather is a persons problem than a plugin issue, but I have observed the same behavior with the CDM plugin, causing people to download the newest version and losing the custom settings included in the GNG AIRAC-package...

[Bernardo Reis (1096507)]

Or just change the message.

"Plugin update available. Consult your vACC prior to update".

Should be easier to implement, people still get notified if a new beta comes up but if they read it, they probably won't update right away.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Bernardo Reis (1096507)

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

1 hour ago, Bernardo Reis (1096507) said:

Or just change the message.

"Plugin update available. Consult your vACC prior to update".

Should be easier to implement, people still get notified if a new beta comes up but if they read it, they probably won't update right away.

I like the idea, sounds like a good solution to me!

[Stephen Odgaard (811390)]

On 05/10/2023 at 08:59, Juha Holopainen said:

Beta 5 attached.

Changes from beta 4:

• Change Rates Window updated to allow specifying a time for the rates change
• Flight Information Window added
• De-sequenced List added
• Callsign menu updated (access to Flight Information Window and options to remove or de-sequence the flight)

Mplugin11b5.zip 1.16 MB · 16 downloads

Excellent improvements Juha.

An example of one of the sequencing issues I mentioned in the previous beta.

At appx 17:50 FLI456 is shown before EZY3MC, although the flow will be with EZY in front. I do a recompute of the FLI456 and it ends up behind ICE212 which is still very far away. It should just have swapped places between the two.

Screenshot and datafile attached.

EuroScope20231009.txt

[Stephen Odgaard (811390)]

Would it be possible when doing a mouse-over or click on an aircraft in the list to have it light up on the scope as when doing it on the sector inbound list or sector exit list?

/Stephen

[Stephen Odgaard (811390)]

On 05/10/2023 at 08:59, Juha Holopainen said:

Beta 5 attached.

Changes from beta 4:

• Change Rates Window updated to allow specifying a time for the rates change
• Flight Information Window added
• De-sequenced List added
• Callsign menu updated (access to Flight Information Window and options to remove or de-sequence the flight)

Mplugin11b5.zip 1.16 MB · 16 downloads

Juha,

Would it be possible for the Infomation window that pops up to stay in the location of a previously opened Information window, or "last opened location".

Currently it pops up across the bar where the right click occured.

Thanks!

[Stephen Odgaard (811390)]

Juha,
Additional example: 19:01 DLH343 "blocks" for HHN240, AUA303 and others which are in front of the circuit.

19:02: ITY658 in hold at CDA FL110 blocks for Eg. AUA3CP at FL090 further down in the hold stack.

Let me know if you want me to assemble these examples in another way.

EuroScope20231009-2.zip

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

1 hour ago, Stephen Odgaard (811390) said:

Juha,
Additional example: 19:01 DLH343 "blocks" for HHN240, AUA303 and others which are in front of the circuit.

19:02: ITY658 in hold at CDA FL110 blocks for Eg. AUA3CP at FL090 further down in the hold stack.

Let me know if you want me to assemble these examples in another way.

EuroScope20231009-2.zip 4.68 MB · 0 downloads

What are your settings for the different flight states?

It's difficult to see why the plugin is behaving as it is when all of the flight labels have the same colour 

 

If I'm not mistaken. In your first example, it would have been better to simply swap the two flights instead of recomputing it.

In example two, just move the DLH to its planned spot in the sequence? (Unable to determine if this is possible depending on flight state, with all labels having the same colour makes this impossible)

Edited October 9, 2023 by Max Kuhla (1157125)

[Stephen Odgaard (811390)]

21 hours ago, Max Kuhla (1157125) said:

What are your settings for the different flight states?

It's difficult to see why the plugin is behaving as it is when all of the flight labels have the same colour 

 

If I'm not mistaken. In your first example, it would have been better to simply swap the two flights instead of recomputing it.

In example two, just move the DLH to its planned spot in the sequence? (Unable to determine if this is possible depending on flight state, with all labels having the same colour makes this impossible)

Thanks Max,

Its the standard CPH setup set up by the team. Unsure exactly what colors are used - will investigate…

Interesting - Didnt realize one could swap. Is that just drag/drop?

When is it appropriate to recompute?

Also unless a designated coordinator is assigned the automation should do 99% of the work. Otherwise its just one more system to maintain rather than a tactical planning help.

 

/Stephen

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

46 minutes ago, Stephen Odgaard (811390) said:

Thanks Max,

Its the standard CPH setup set up by the team. Unsure exactly what colors are used - will investigate…

Interesting - Didnt realize one could swap. Is that just drag/drop?

When is it appropriate to recompute?

Also unless a designated coordinator is assigned the automation should do 99% of the work. Otherwise its just one more system to maintain rather than a tactical planning help.

 

/Stephen

See 3.2.4.1.3 of the General manual included in the package!

You may also check my Wiki page regarding AMAN, some things are specific for the Swedish setup, but most of it is useful anyways.

AMAN (MAESTRO) | Wiki (vatsim-scandinavia.org)

 

The automation can/must be tweaked with the flight states, the stable states can be set up to be only a short time, keeping the traffic flow constantly recalculating.

[Juha Holopainen]

On 09/10/2023 at 21:01, Stephen Odgaard (811390) said:

At appx 17:50 FLI456 is shown before EZY3MC, although the flow will be with EZY in front. I do a recompute of the FLI456 and it ends up behind ICE212 which is still very far away. It should just have swapped places between the two.

On 09/10/2023 at 22:07, Stephen Odgaard (811390) said:

Additional example: 19:01 DLH343 "blocks" for HHN240, AUA303 and others which are in front of the circuit.

19:02: ITY658 in hold at CDA FL110 blocks for Eg. AUA3CP at FL090 further down in the hold stack.

Neither of those examples look wrong in any obvious way. The sequence is initially built up using the EuroScope estimates for the feeder fix and landing threshold, and the flight state changes determine when a flight's position in the sequence is locked and no longer re-calculated with every position update. If the sequence is wrong, or the controllers decide on another sequence, it needs to be adjusted. The only automatic adjustment near the airport will be done based on aircraft established on the extended centerline, the plugin will then force those aircraft to the front of the sequence regardless of where they were before.

The simplest way to adjust the sequence is to drag the aircraft to their intended places in the sequence. A recompute will just remove the aircraft from the sequence and then immediately add it back as a new aircraft. Its new position will then be a function of the current time estimates and the flight states of the other aircraft in the sequence (the newly added flight can only be inserted in front of stable and unstable flights). It's difficult to be sure with all the labels being white, but so close to the airport, most if not all of the flights will already be in superstable state.

On 09/10/2023 at 21:04, Stephen Odgaard (811390) said:

Would it be possible when doing a mouse-over or click on an aircraft in the list to have it light up on the scope as when doing it on the sector inbound list or sector exit list?

That is not possible, there is no way for the plugin to send that information to EuroScope.

On 09/10/2023 at 21:42, Stephen Odgaard (811390) said:

Would it be possible for the Infomation window that pops up to stay in the location of a previously opened Information window, or "last opened location".

I'm actually not sure how the real system works in this case, but I'll consider it.

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

A question previously mentioned @Juha

At the present state of the plugin, it´s not possible to have several airports flow controlled through the same FTP address, as the file will be overwritten, correct?

 

And to be sure:

The aircraft’s positions on the respective timelines shows:

• RWY: Touchdown STA
• FLOW: FF STA
• ACC/FEEDER: FF ETA(Right? SO the FLOW view is how the ACC view should look, for all planes to have 0 min current delay.)

Edited October 11, 2023 by Max Kuhla (1157125)

[Juha Holopainen]

The same path can be used as the plugin automatically appends the airport ICAO code to the file name.

"Runway" and "FLOW" display the aircraft on the timelines at their STA (runway), "ACC" displays them at STA FF.

[Stephen Odgaard (811390)]

11 hours ago, Juha Holopainen said:

Neither of those examples look wrong in any obvious way. The sequence is initially built up using the EuroScope estimates for the feeder fix and landing threshold, and the flight state changes determine when a flight's position in the sequence is locked and no longer re-calculated with every position update. If the sequence is wrong, or the controllers decide on another sequence, it needs to be adjusted. The only automatic adjustment near the airport will be done based on aircraft established on the extended centerline, the plugin will then force those aircraft to the front of the sequence regardless of where they were before.

The simplest way to adjust the sequence is to drag the aircraft to their intended places in the sequence. A recompute will just remove the aircraft from the sequence and then immediately add it back as a new aircraft. Its new position will then be a function of the current time estimates and the flight states of the other aircraft in the sequence (the newly added flight can only be inserted in front of stable and unstable flights). It's difficult to be sure with all the labels being white, but so close to the airport, most if not all of the flights will already be in superstable state.

Thanks Juha,

The challenge is of course how much attention adjusting the sequence requires by the controller - ballancing the value of the tool in relation to the extra workload to "maintain" it.

One place where I see things go haywire at EKCH is with the use of Holds. Eg. inbound CDA (i have data for late monday VTC if you are interested). Typically the distance to FF goes back and forth and in/out of the "stable" state.

A lot of manual corrections are needed. Could the FL (actual or cleared) in the hold be used for an auto adjustment of the sequence, so they are sequenced from bottom to top?

With MONAK arrivals aircraft arriving via GESKA typically arrive above aircraft via NIKDA, KOSEB or SONAL due to the LOA with DE. So emptying the stack from the bottom will actually have the aircraft via GESKA come later in the sequence than they "deserve" in order to avoid a vertical separation mess (due to the short 10-15 nm distance from the hand-over point EDDW-EKDK).

/Stephen

Edited October 11, 2023 by Stephen Odgaard (811390)

[Juha Holopainen]

The feeder fixes and the state parameters need to be defined so that holding aircraft will not get tossed about in the sequence. Your setup needs some adjustments in that regard (I assume the one I found on GNG is the intended one?). For example for the MONAK arrivals, the defined feeder fixes are NEKSO and KUBIS. With NEKSO being 16.7nm from the holding fix CDA, it's very likely that the aircraft in the hold don't always stay properly sequenced.

Currently the plugin does not prevent the flight state from "going backwards" (from stable back to unstable for example). I have been thinking about making the code prefer not to downgrade an existing flight's state, but this being VATSIM, it might end up causing more issues than it would solve. At the moment the plan is a new configurable time parameter such that when a flight has been for example in the stable state, it would not downgrade to unstable unless the time to feeder fix would be that much greater than the parameter to become stable (i.e. with the stable parameter at 15 minutes and the new parameter at 5 minutes, a flight would become stable at 15 minutes from the feeder and would not downgrade to unstable again unless its time to feeder would become greater than 20 minutes for some reason).

For now, you need to either change the feeder fix (CDA might be good as it's the holding fix) or increase the time parameters for the state changes so that holding aircraft remain fixed in the sequence. Changing the feeder fix should be considered first as the time parameters affect all feeders and make it harder to properly sequence in flights from nearby airports.

[Max Kuhla (1157125)]

On 11/10/2023 at 18:49, Juha Holopainen said:

The same path can be used as the plugin automatically appends the airport ICAO code to the file name.

"Runway" and "FLOW" display the aircraft on the timelines at their STA (runway), "ACC" displays them at STA FF.

My mistake, I don't know how i got this idea... Would be nice though!